Wednesday, November 15, 2006
Roleplaying and Computer Roleplaying Games
Some interesting conversations have come up surrounding the topic of roleplaying in computer RPGs. Is it possible in single-player games? Is it even desireable or possible? Is an RPG really an RPG without the "R"?
The discussion frequently comes around to comparisons to multiplayer and "live" RPG sessions.
Me? My best roleplaying experience ever wasn't in an RPG at all. And it got me slapped.
Articles
The first article was over at GameWatch.com, an editotorial entitled, "Where Is the 'R' in RPG?"
Scorpia has since responded in a pair of articles, ROLE Playing? and ROLE Playing? Part 2. Bruce Nielson pointed out an article he'd written called Roleplaying Styles and Roleplaying Conflict, primarily referring to roleplaying in multiplayer Neverwinter Nights.
I think this is one of those arguments that will never be resolved. Like the chicken and the egg, or storytelling vs. gameplay (AKA narrativism vs. simulationism, in Bruce's article), or Democrats vs. Republicans. The value is in the discussion, not in any nebulous resolution.
What's In A Name?
First of all, RPGS were invented before they were even called "roleplaying games." So, to me, arguing about whether or not something is a "true" roleplaying game based upon the term that eventually stuck to the category rings artificial to me. In some ways, it can be counter-productive.
It reminds me a little of the (Indian?) parable of the blind men describing the elephant based upon the single feature they experienced. For me, a key part of the experience is using the attributes (stats) of my character(s) to accomplish a task, rather than my own personal abilities. To many game developers, that's no longer aspect of what they consider to be RPGs.
Naturally, I think my point of view is the right one. But we could all be arguing over parts of the elephant.
My Best Roleplaying Experience
High School.
Drama Class.
Improvs.
I was to play a lecherous broadway producer. She was to play my former lover, a woman developing a good prima-donna complex. The situation: I was getting rid of the prima-donna in my new play, replacing her with the new hottie. With all the emotional baggage that entailed. Two other actors were playing the young hottie and one other role in our little improvisational drama, and some other situation that I forget.
Now, it just so happens that this girl and I were really good friends, admired each other, but had zero physical attraction to each other (as far as I know) in real life. We had a couple of classes together, often had lunch together with the same group of friends, etc. But we both really got into our assigned roles.
And it got heated. Very heated. It ended with the two of us screaming at each other, and she hauled off and slapped me. Ear-ringingly hard. I didn't even notice. Or rather, I noticed, but it didn't dawn on me that I'd been slapped by one of my good friends. No, she was a a total bitch-queen who I'd been supremely stupid to get involved with in the first place, and if I had my way she'd never work in this town again. And I proceded to tell her so at high-volume.
It finally dawned on us that our drama teacher was screaming "cut" or "stop" or something at all of us. Oh, right, we were in this improv. I became aware of a stinging sensation in my left cheek and a ringing in my ear. Suddenly, my partner's eyes widened in horror at what she'd done. She grabbed hold of my arm and apologized repeatedly, explaining that she hadn't even thought about what she was doing. I told her it was fine, I'd been right there with her, and it hadn't thought twice about it until the scene had ended.
Now THAT was roleplaying. And I am pretty sure we got an "A" in class that day.
And Best Experiences in Roleplaying Games
Have I had anything even approaching that sitting around the table with dice and a character sheet in my hand? Not in the same league as far as emotional intensity, no. But I have had some awesome moments that reminded me that THIS was what it was about.
Ducking behind an overturned table in Call of Cthulhu with the rest of my companions, as pistols and a tommy-gun were pulled out to deal with the horde of ghouls that had chased us into this dead-end, hearing them howling and gibbering in the darkened hall...
Getting caught in an ambush in a ruined town, trying to find cover as our supply truck with all our precious food, medicine, and ammunition took a direct mortar hit in Twilight: 2000...
Playing a poor blue-collar worker with a sleep disorder trying to maintain a romantic relationship with a wealthy industrialist, and dealing with the stress of shared friends, social pressures, her tendency to glow blue when excited, and of course horrible super-villains and invading aliens threatening to destroy us and civilization as we knew it in Champions....
And playing a local city councilman (and, secretly, a voodoo priest) in New Orleans, and having to choose between accepting campaign support from local organized crime, or allowing certain vampires to bolster their own political power in the city in an online World of Darkness game.
Can This Happen In A Single-Player CRPG?
I think, to a large degree, roleplaying is a social experience. It's about having reinforcement from other participants (even unwitting ones) and audience. Take away the other players, and it becomes a story rather than roleplaying. It may be an interactive story, but it's still "just" a story. At the time I was on the stage with my friend, or at the time the moments in the game were taking place, I was roleplaying. But now, telling about them, no matter how I might try to get back into the mindset of my character, I'm still just telling a story.
The computer can simulate an opponent or another player for some games, but they still suck horribly at simulating a true social experience. Maybe someday people might be able to roleplay with C3PO as a partner, but not now. Likewise, a book may be extremely well-written, but even though you might have been able to make some interesting choices based on "playing a character" in those Choose Your Own Adventure books in the early 1980's, that didn't constitute roleplaying either.So in that respect, I'm going to have to say "no, you can't have roleplaying in a single-player roleplaying game."
But There's A But...
However, the fun of roleplaying - the "goal" if you will (which is why it is used as a tool by therapists, trainers, and others) is that it allows us to explore possibilities in a safe social environment. Well - relatively safe. Apparently, I could still get slapped.
But even in a fantasy roleplaying game like D&D, where we're fighting dragons and demons in full melodramatic and larger-than-life glory, there are points of verismilitude with our real lives that make it compelling, that give the experience power, and can actually teach us in some ways.
No, we're not going to be chucking fireballs at black dragons when we step out the door to go to work in the morning, and our memorization of the grappling rules isn't going to do us much good on that physics test tomorrow morning. However, everyone deals with facing apparently insurmountable odds as part of the basic human experience. It's nice to know what it feels like to be victorious once in a while.
We often have to choose the lesser of two evils. With my city councilman / voodoo priest, I was able to safely explore possible repercussions of doing so. We often face trials in relationships with others, particularly romantic ones - and in the Champions game, we could blow up those trials to fantastic and melodramatic proportions to explore how to deal with them without the dangers of harming a real-world relationship. In Twilight: 2000 and Call of Cthulhu, I got to explore my own emotional reactions to dire emergencies in a safe, slow-paced environment. Not that they resembled anything I expect to face in the real world (I certainly hope not), and I doubt I'd actually have such coolness under fire as my characters, but whether or not they have any actual value or application to the real world, the thrill was similar to the thrill of riding a roller coaster - the emotional reaction was invoked without an actual threat being involved.
And computer games can DO exploration. They can do it pretty well. They have some pretty hard limits to the exploration, but a single-player computer game with virtually unlimited save points is about as safe an environment as you can ask for.
And it is being done. The Sims was so astronomically successful, I think, for that very reason. While it was incredibly abstract as a social simulation, it allowed people to explore. I guess is shares the same resemblance with roleplaying as playing with dolls or action figures as a kid might. I wouldn't CALL it that, but it shares some resemblances.
The hit indie RPG Cute Knight has a lot of features in common with what some people are calling for to add more roleplaying in RPGs. TONS of choices, over 50 endings (plus several variants per ending) - from becoming the Queen of Thieves, to a maid, to a champion of the realm, to discovering your heritage as... um, I'll leave that one alone. Like other "sim" games, you have choices with lots of consequences - some of them simple (like losing effectiveness in one attribute in favor of others), and some more complicated and scripted, such as new opportunities opening up and new characters being met.But is it roleplaying? I don't think so. To me, it's exploration. It's creating an interesting story. It's having fun. I even have an emotional attachment (for the brief duration of the game) to my character. And if you've read any of those Game Moments articles, you'll know I believe that games can be every bit as thrilling and emotion-evoking as any other medium - perhaps more so. All the thrill of getting your face slapped in an improv, but without the pain.
I just think pursuing "roleplaying" in single-player RPGs is false goal. It's a means, not an end. We still have a ton of uncharted territory left to explore.
(Vaguely) related incoherent rants:
* Game Moments #4: Daggerfall
* Cute Knight Hints, Tips, and Spoilers
* RPG Design Seed Challenge
* Innovation in RPGs?
* Where Is Indie Innovation?
* Game Moments #9: Ultima Underworld
Labels: Game Design, Roleplaying Games
- posted by The Rampant Coyote @ 8:55 AM (Permalink)
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I know it's all semantics on one level, but it seems to me that the main thing you describe in your theater class experience, is how much you personally got into your character. How you lost yourself in that character and became that person. If I think about the same experience in games, I've had it a lot. As a kid playing AD&D on intellivision playing the first zelda on nes. As an adult moments in everquest. Playing the demo of Clive Barker's Undying..playing the first tomb raider. Its interesting that most of these experiences were not when I was playing traditional crpgs! But more often than not playing games that were in the first person perspective. Those were the games that let me become that character and really feel like I am in that place. I think the games and style definitely have something to do with it, but a lot of it is in the player's intention too. For instance, in EQ it was easy to get wrapped up in the stats/grinding game. But you _could_ let yourself become your character and roleplay. I had some moments traveling solo where I did feel like I took on the role of my character, I had only a few of those that involved other people. rambling I am. point being a lot of the experience of role playing is in the intention of the player.
As I said, you can look into my game moments list and see how often I've been sucked into my character / nation / avatar or whatnot in games and actually became emotionally involved with what was happening in the game. My desire for revenge in Daggerfall. Fear in Doom and Ultima Underworld. Almost shame in Ultima 7. Something really machiavellian (sp) in Master of Orion.
But all I can say is it didn't "feel like" roleplaying in those games.
Falcon 4.0 and Wing Commander really pulled me into the fantasy of what was going on on-screen, and seemed to become "real" to me. They accomplished the goal of making me feel like I was another person better than any roleplaying game (PnP or computer), but I still didn't feel like I was roleplaying. Even in some games where, for fun, the second or third time through the game I made decisions based on what my in-game persona would do, it didn't feel the same. It just felt like I was playing some sort of "meta-game."
So that's what I base it on. Call it what you like.
But all I can say is it didn't "feel like" roleplaying in those games.
Falcon 4.0 and Wing Commander really pulled me into the fantasy of what was going on on-screen, and seemed to become "real" to me. They accomplished the goal of making me feel like I was another person better than any roleplaying game (PnP or computer), but I still didn't feel like I was roleplaying. Even in some games where, for fun, the second or third time through the game I made decisions based on what my in-game persona would do, it didn't feel the same. It just felt like I was playing some sort of "meta-game."
So that's what I base it on. Call it what you like.
My definition of RPG is pretty simple. To me, an RPG is simply a game where your character gains in power and abilities as you move through the game. It's the "weak to strong" component in games that is the key, IMHO.
However, it is not really an RPG if you have no control over the development of your character(s). It is essential to be able to choose things like class, skills, feats, stats, etc.
However, it is not really an RPG if you have no control over the development of your character(s). It is essential to be able to choose things like class, skills, feats, stats, etc.
# posted by 
: November 16, 2006 7:43 AM
: November 16, 2006 7:43 AM
I think, over the years, CRPGs have simply become defined in the terms that Anonymous has cited.
This discussion used to pop up back in the early '90s, when I worked for a company called Novalink. They produced a commercial MUD called Legends of Future Past, which was successful because of the amount of GM attention lavished on the players. Each weekend, entire quests would be created for groups of 20-60, complete with live, GM-run NPCs. Each night, a smaller "event" would run, focusing more on PC-NPC interaction.
Of course, this level of interaction was only possible because they charged players $6 per hour to play (you could also get a flatrate account for a mere $1,000/month).
Before I worked there, I'd play the game frequently, and my hands-down favorite event was one wherein my character was made honorary King of the Kobolds. It was a personal/personalized experience -- they did this because of the way I had established my character and role-played through that particular event. That type of interactivity combined with exploration through the minmaxing of combat(?) stats is what I call an RPG.
The closest I've come to something like this in a computer game was in The Sims, when I married a character off. But there isn't the same level/style of exploration there.
This discussion used to pop up back in the early '90s, when I worked for a company called Novalink. They produced a commercial MUD called Legends of Future Past, which was successful because of the amount of GM attention lavished on the players. Each weekend, entire quests would be created for groups of 20-60, complete with live, GM-run NPCs. Each night, a smaller "event" would run, focusing more on PC-NPC interaction.
Of course, this level of interaction was only possible because they charged players $6 per hour to play (you could also get a flatrate account for a mere $1,000/month).
Before I worked there, I'd play the game frequently, and my hands-down favorite event was one wherein my character was made honorary King of the Kobolds. It was a personal/personalized experience -- they did this because of the way I had established my character and role-played through that particular event. That type of interactivity combined with exploration through the minmaxing of combat(?) stats is what I call an RPG.
The closest I've come to something like this in a computer game was in The Sims, when I married a character off. But there isn't the same level/style of exploration there.
I agree entirely. Not necessarily that actual min/maxing must occur, but where taking advantage of your character's strengths and trying to avoid getting his/her weaknesses exploited is a big part of what I consider the gameplay of RPGs. Take that away, and I don't see it being an RPG anymore.
The kobold king thing sounds pretty awesome. I always WISHED they'd do things like that in the new crop of MMORPGs... but I guess with people only paying $13 a month, the best they could do in EQ was create three ubermonsters to slaughter all the newbies in a zone until the high-level players came to rescue them and complain about the crappy loot.
The kobold king thing sounds pretty awesome. I always WISHED they'd do things like that in the new crop of MMORPGs... but I guess with people only paying $13 a month, the best they could do in EQ was create three ubermonsters to slaughter all the newbies in a zone until the high-level players came to rescue them and complain about the crappy loot.
It's a tough question.
Some may argue that other things define "roleplaying" games.
Consider an FPS with clearly defined team roles, such as a scout, squad leader, grenadier, heavy gunner, etc. These players are certainly engaging in "roleplay", yet this is a far cry (pun intended) from traditional RPGs.
Personally, I wouldn't consider any FPS to be an RPG unless the characters gained experience or somehow were enhanced the more they play.
Deus Ex is a good example of a game that is predominantly an FPS but which also included RPG elements.
So I think "playing a role" is not the only thing that constitutes an RPG, if that makes sense.
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Some may argue that other things define "roleplaying" games.
Consider an FPS with clearly defined team roles, such as a scout, squad leader, grenadier, heavy gunner, etc. These players are certainly engaging in "roleplay", yet this is a far cry (pun intended) from traditional RPGs.
Personally, I wouldn't consider any FPS to be an RPG unless the characters gained experience or somehow were enhanced the more they play.
Deus Ex is a good example of a game that is predominantly an FPS but which also included RPG elements.
So I think "playing a role" is not the only thing that constitutes an RPG, if that makes sense.
# posted by : November 16, 2006 1:58 PM
: November 16, 2006 1:58 PMLinks to this post:
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